In the five months found within James White, our title character is at the most difficult chapter of his life thus far. Grieving the loss of his father and attempting to assist his ailing mother, the drama authentically depicts the brutality of the process. After producing the gripping Sundance dramas Martha Marcy May Marlene and Simon Killer, Josh Mond diverts in some ways with his directorial debut. Providing yet another intimate character study of a fractured individual, James White also has a perhaps unexpected enveloping warmth.
I had the chance to speak with Mond upon the release of his debut, which arrives in limited theaters on November 13th. We discussed the personal connection everyone had on set, the intense camerawork, crafting one of the year’s most emotional scenes, finding the ending, being inspired by James Gray, Joachim Trier, Denis Villeneuve, and Wong Kar-wai, and more. Check out the full conversation below for the highly recommended drama.
It’s been exciting to see where Borderline Films has gone since Aftershool. Compared to some of the films you’ve produced, I was taken aback by the unexpected warmth in James White. Can you talk about your sensibilities, and if you detected, in the scripting stage, that this would be a little different than your other work?
I didn’t. The film came from a personal place: I lost my mom four-and-a-half years ago, so there was always an added pressure with it being so personal and so close. I think that came through for everybody on the movie. Everybody had a personal connection, having gone through being a child with their own parents or some of the people I’ve known for a long time, and just how much everybody invested in the film — whether it’s for me or for themselves — I feel like it rang true. I don’t know how to differentiate from my other films, but yeah.
With the camera movements, it almost feels like Christopher Abbott is guiding where the camera is going, not the other way around. Was there a lot of blocking or was it mostly a free-form set, where you then captured him and he could go where he wanted?
I think it was a mixture of that. We rehearsed the scene on the day and we watched their movement, and then we’d dictate the blocking sometimes. Sometimes it was very specific in my head, but it would always change once Christopher came into it or Cynthia came into it. It was very organic. Everybody had lent their voice to finding the right rhythm of the blocking, from the DP to the cast. Mátyás [Erdély, the cinematographer] had a skill to make it feel organic, in terms of where the camera moves and stuff. In terms of leading him and following him, it was really a dance between him and Christopher and they were super close. Their chemistry was pretty amazing from the beginning, so I think it kind of was a continuation of their relationship. It was very lucky that the two of them became so close with each other right off the bat.
You mentioned Mátyás, your cinematographer, and I was surprised to learn he also shot Son of Saul. Did you have a chance to see that yet?
I haven’t yet. I can’t wait.
Yeah, it’s insanely intense. His camerawork is incredible.
I mean, he also did Southcliffe, Miss Bala, and Delta. He’s great.
You’ve previously discussed your admiration for Joachim Trier, James Gray, and Denis Villeneuve. I can see some elements of them in this film, especially von Trier. Can you talk a little bit about their influence and what films of theirs first impressed you?
Yeah, James Gray, for me, I connect with his films and they are attractive to me, and they always have been since Little Odessa. I just feel he has an authentic voice that I feel comfortable watching. They’re challenging, but they’re not. They’re entertaining and you don’t realize you’re doing much work. They are authentic from a part of New York that I don’t know very well, but they’re attractive to me. The pacing and the lighting and the actors he uses — it’s just effective to me.
Joachim is a very special thing. I got to meet Joachim when he was traveling around with Reprise. I went to a screening in Rotterdam and I sat through the beginning of it and it didn’t have English subtitles. So Joachim brought me and Antonio [Campos] to dinner with a bunch of other people while the movie played. So I got to know him and we became friendly. I didn’t think anything of it — he was just a cool dude.
Then he came to New Directors/New Films and I said, “Oh, I’ll see his movie and then I’ll meet him afterwards.” I went to see his movie and, after the movie, I became like a fanboy. I already knew him, but I just couldn’t speak at dinner. I couldn’t look at him. I was intimidated. Reprise was the same kind of thing, where I connected to it emotionally but I was also extremely entertained by it. It was a well-balanced, exciting, contemporary film with things I identified with. He was dealing with themes and storylines that felt very familiar to me and brave and talking about things that we feel uncomfortable with bringing up and sharing at first. Then I saw Oslo, August 31st, and Oslo is a masterpiece, you know?
Yeah.
Again, it’s stylistically… he’s progressive and also brave with the subject matter, but it doesn’t isolate you. He makes entertaining, thought-provoking cinema. It’s emotional.
Then Denis Villeneuve I kind of discovered a little bit later. I watched Incendies and I wasn’t expecting anything, and I just remember getting to the end. Even the end, on paper, it’s very buttoned-up, but it worked. I was like, “I just watched a masterpiece.” I called a couple people after I watched it. I called Tony and I said, “Oh, my God, dude. I just watched the fucking greatest movie called Incendies.” Then, after that, I went back and I discovered Polytechnique, the black-and-white high-school-shooting film. Then I realized he had done a short film, when I first met Brady [Corbet] years ago. Actually, when I met his mother for the first time. Brady had me meet him at his mother’s house. He made me sit down, before even saying hi to his mom, and he made me watch Next Floor with his mom. You know the short film?
Yeah, I’ve seen it.
So I’m sitting there awkwardly meeting his mom, but we haven’t even said hello. We’re watching this short film, which is extremely experimental. That was my first introduction to Villenueve. And I didn’t connect the dots. Then it kind of all worked out. Our composers who worked on Martha [Marcy May Marlene] and Simon [Killer], Danny [Bensi] and Saunder [Jurriaans], they did Enemy. We worked with the editor on Enemy, when we were looking for an editor [on James White], we were really interested in Matt [Hannam], and Danny and Saunder set us up with him. It kind of all worked out. It was kind of perfect.
You know Wong Kar-wai? I don’t know, man — it’s just the same kind of thing. His femininity and loss of being masculine. It’s okay to be romantic. He makes everything effective and beautiful.
Yeah, I could watch In the Mood for Love on repeat, forever, pretty much.
Yeah, In the Mood for Love, followed by 2046, back-to-back.
Yes, exactly. Getting back to James White: the thing that made me link some of those films to yours is that a logline of some work from Joachim Trier and James Gray could kind of seem like an exercise in misery — but, like you said, they have an entertaining touch and they are all authentic. With James White, there’s a sense that you almost whittled down to the most authentic moments. Can you talk about finding that authenticity?
Yeah. We shot the movie in 18 days in New York, and then, like, 4 days in Mexico. So we were doing a lot of pages a day. We first shot in the city, so they were very heavy days and a lot of running on adrenaline. We would shoot scenes and I like to get the whole scenes, from start to finish, in one take, so the energy never broke. The actors, obviously, ran on energy as well, but brought so much to the authenticity because Cynthia had her own experience in losing her mother. Then Chris and I knew each other for so long and Scott Mescudi, he understands the world so well. I was inspired by his music so much in the writing process as well. Not only was I attracted to his melodies, but, when you listen to it, you realize he’s singing about himself. I was a fan first, so you take all three of those people and there is something connecting all of us to get me to all of them. I genuinely connect to each one of them.
So I was able to shoot and see how the scenes would play out in full. There wasn’t really any interruption with trying to feel it. Then when we got into the editing room; the movie would work if we tried and let the scenes play out in one shot. It just didn’t have the energy and anxiety — the momentum. So, in the editing process, Sean [Durkin] and Tony [Campos] were there with Matt for some time, and we figured out a language to really make it feel like you holding your breath, like you couldn’t breathe. For me, especially in that period of my life, I forget to breathe. So much so that I have to remind myself now to breathe. In the editing process with my partners having a clear mind and a different perspective and only wanting the best for the film and us, and nothing else, it was the purest form. We were able to decipher a language by having these moments of cuts where it’s like taking a quick breath. We found, or defined, the language in the editing room and it took some time, but there was a good combination of people that allowed it to get to that place. Did that make sense?
Yes, definitely. It adds a lot and helps me understand the process because there is a lot to unpack in the movie with the editing choices. I was rewatching it yesterday and picked up on a lot of things, especially with the sound design to put you in that headspace.
So, the scene that a lot of people are talking about is in the one in the bathroom, where it reaches this emotional climax that hits you and surprises you. When you were scripting that, did it feel that way, or was it the day when you saw them act it out that you knew this was a really special moment in the film?
I remember writing the last twenty pages — the first draft of it — on a plane, like one plane ride. I remember it coming out in a very pure way, where it was more like a letter to my mom. It felt emotional to me while it came out and it felt like I was connecting with something. That’s not to say it wasn’t edited and worked on and I wasn’t advised by Tony and Sean. I definitely had support once the idea was there. Then, when shooting the scene, I definitely felt something. It’s been a while now, though, and I can’t remember, so I don’t want to create a mythology around it. I definitely felt strong about what we were doing on the day. All the stuff in the bedroom, though, with her sick, I remember looking at Sean and seeing Sean crying by the monitor. I saw my best friend I grew up with having to take a moment. I saw Tony and I saw crew members deeply affected. I was crying. So there were a lot of moments.
The hotel room scene at the end of it, when Chris is saying, “Tell me what to do. Tell me what to do.” I cried. There were moments I connected genuinely to it where I was deeply affected. But the last shot of the movie, where Chris is smoking in front of the camera, I remember that wasn’t really how we were going to end it. I remember just saying to Chris, “Keep smoking. Keep smoking.” We just let it go all the way. Then Mátyás and the AC both look at me and go, “That’s the end of the movie. There’s no question. That’s the end of the film.” So, I’m sorry I didn’t answer the question about the bathroom, but something happened where what we were feeling on set, or memories I have, that stick out… definitely the bathroom does, but the new ending of the film wasn’t planned. That’s the one that sticks out the most.
Well, thank you for the great film, and I’m excited for Christine and everything that’s coming up. Best of luck.
Thanks, man. Take care and thank you for supporting the film, man.
James White arrives in limited release on Friday, November 13. See Mond’s Abbott-led short film, 1009, below.