Every year is a good year to admire Kiyoshi Kurosawa, whose filmography runs far and deep enough to essentially guarantee you’ve yet to discover something wondrous. 2024 is of particular note, though: it’s brought Cloud, a thrilling detour into action cinema; the French-language remake of his essential Serpent’s Path; and Chime, which spends its fleet 50 minutes hitting every key note of his greatest projects sans one dull step.
Kurosawa appeared at this year’s Beyond Fest, where he took time from presenting 2024’s trio to speak with me, via Zoom, on the subjects of prolificacy, pride, and resurrecting an elder form of filmmaking.
The Film Stage: I’ve seen two of the three films you made this year––Cloud and Chime. You work at a frequent pace––one pleasure of loving your cinema is that there’s always so much of it––but there are certain years in your career that prove especially productive; 2024 is one such, with two features and a 50-minute featurette. I wonder if it’s just practical circumstance of when you can work, or if there’s a particular inspiration that characterizes these times.
Kiyoshi Kurosawa: So I would probably lean on the side of it being a coincidence. I’ve been shooting three films in the last year, and actually a lot of the pre-production on those three films started five years ago. A lot of it was circumstantial, with COVID and schedules going very wacky for a while. But I would have to say that when I was shooting those three, it was probably the busiest year I’ve had in my entire career. Now, if there was no script it usually takes a longer process. But because the scripts were more or less there and ready to go, it was just about shooting them. That also contributed to the timing.
Film productions are so many hours in a day, so much work. How do you maintain stamina, focus, and inspiration on a day-by-day basis?
Personally, it’s not very hard for me to get through the long days and maintain my stamina and focus. I don’t know what other directors experience––it’s hard to compare––but for those who are aware of how we shoot in Japan, yeah, I guess people have commented that I shoot quickly, I edit quickly. Maybe other people are just slow. Generally I do work with a very speedy flow. And also my cast and crew: they’re very talented and very experienced, so they can keep up with the pace.
Especially if you’re aware of what budgets are like in Japan compared to the U.S., they’re like a fraction. Most of the time I end up finishing my shoot in four weeks. Cloud was four weeks; Chime, five days; Serpent’s Path was five weeks. So it is finite; it’s not going on forever. You already know when you’re going to end, so I feel like it’s not that much of a long period of time to be working that hard. I personally think that someone who just works for a big corporation, who has a nine-to-five job––they’ve got it worse than me.
When we spoke in 2021 you said, regarding your old films, “After it’s made I’m quite irresponsible towards my films––I sort of let them be and go about their own way. […] I have no interest in really following what my past films are doing.” So when people ask you about, for instance, Pulse––a film from many, many years ago––while it’s playing at this festival, are you left a little… uncertain what to say? Is the conversation not as fluid as it is for a new film, which you’re more eager to discuss?
Of course, when I’m doing press like this, I am forced to reflect on my past works. But it’s also a good opportunity for me to rediscover things about my past and realize things, so it’s actually very helpful when I speak to press. Yes, otherwise I am always looking about the next thing. What am I drawn to? What piques my interest? Yes: I am ever, always looking forward.
Do you still feel connected to the filmmaker from many years ago? I love that you continue innovating, but I love the early work too. I wonder if there’s a sense of pride.
Pride. [Pause] I would actually not use the word “pride.” But I do realize that, in filmmaking, there’s so many filmmakers that might just shoot two or three films and that’ll be it––circumstances, money, etc.––and many ultimately leave. So looking at the fact that I’ve been doing this for such a long time and continue to be a filmmaker, I would almost use the word that I’m “satisfied” more than having pride in what I’m able to do. But I’m satisfied.
Kiyoshi Kurosawa on the set of Cloud. Courtesy of Nikkatsu.
Satisfaction is good, certainly. On these three 2024 films you’ve used three different cinematographers. Cloud is Yasayuki Sasaki, who’s worked with Ryusuke Hamaguchi––one of your past students, of course. Serpent’s Path is Alexis Kavyrchine, who shot your other French-language feature Daguerrotype. And Chime is Kôichi Furuya. What did each bring to their respective project, and how did you distinguish duties?
[Laughs] I’m glad you pointed that out. I’m just realizing, yes, I used different DPs. Of course Alexis, because it was shot in France, we’ll prefer to use a cinematographer in France. But yeah: for Cloud and Chime, I did end up using different DPs. There’s no strong intentionality going out to pick these specific DPs. I think COVID did contribute to the timing of when I was working with these DPs. In the past, Tokyo Sonata and other films, I’ve been working with Akiko Ashizawa, who I trust a lot. Then we got into COVID and couldn’t go for a while; that’s when I started seeking a source for a different view on things, a different look. That’s what led me to finding Furuya-san and Yasayuki-san.
A few years ago you did an interview with Hamaguchi for Criterion’s Cure release. During it you hinted at a return to that film’s era, saying, “I sometimes wonder if I could go back to that era now. Even if I might not be able to, I have the will to try to go back, to do only what I truly want to do, to not think about anything. It might end up the worst thing ever. But that’s okay if that’s the case. Because 25 years from now, putting aside whether I’m alive or not, they might say, ‘What a weird movie this is.’ That’s why I’d like to do that kind of moviemaking again now.” Did you find that remaking Serpent’s Path was a sufficient way to go back to that mode of filmmaking? Or did it become its own new thing?
Yes, the 2024 Serpent’s Path is definitely its own film on its own feet. I can say, though, that while I was filming it I did have that feeling when I was doing a lot more program pictures in my career; I was hoping to revisit those days. What I mean is: especially in the latter ‘90s, when I was creating these program pictures, there were always budget and time restrictions. At that time, though, the only result that a filmmaker needed to accomplish was to finish the film. That was it; that was the greatest accomplishment for the director. As time passed, now that result has shifted to, “Okay, the film’s finished. Now it’s about film festivals, about the box office, about whether or not it’s a hit.”
So back in the ‘90s, when I was doing program pictures, it just was about overcoming the challenges. Part of the result was overcoming the challenges. And perhaps we’ve shifted to a more capitalistic world so we’re about different results. For me, shooting Serpent’s Path, we brought Japanese actors to France and I remember feeling that same type of satisfaction with the result because it was so difficult to shoot. It had its challenges to shoot in France, but I was able to finish it, so I was able to recollect that result of that era.
Lastly, I can’t wait to learn what you make of Robert Zemeckis’ Here.
I’m very excited.
Chime is now available digitally while Cloud and Serpent’s Path are seeking U.S. distribution.